login
Hints
(Greetings from The On-Line Encyclopedia of Bongard Problems!)
Search: +ex:BP1167
Displaying 1-4 of 4 results found.     page 1
     Sort: id      Format: long      Filter: (all | no meta | meta)      Mode: (words | no words)
BP508 Bongard Problems with precise definitions vs. Bongard Problems with vague definitions.
BP1
BP3
BP4
BP6
BP13
BP23
BP31
BP67
BP72
BP103
BP104
BP210
BP292
BP312
BP321
BP322
BP324
BP325
BP329
BP334
BP344
BP348
BP367
BP368
BP376
BP384
BP386
BP389
BP390
BP391
BP523
BP527
BP557
BP558
BP559

. . .

BP2
BP9
BP10
BP11
BP12
BP14
BP62
BP119
BP148
BP364
BP393
BP505
BP508
BP509
BP511
BP524
BP571
BP812
BP813
BP847
BP865
BP894
BP895
BP939
BP1002
BP1111
BP1158
(edit; present; nest [left/right]; search; history)
COMMENTS

Bongard Problems sorted left have the keyword "precise" on the OEBP.

Bongard Problems sorted right have the keyword "fuzzy" on the OEBP.


In an precise Bongard Problem, any relevant example is either clearly sorted left, clearly sorted right, or clearly not sorted.

(All relevant examples clearly sorted either left or right is the keyword allsorted.)


How can it be decided whether or not a rule is precise? How can it be decided whether or not a rule classifies all "examples that are relevant"? There needs to be another rule to determine which examples the original rule intends to sort. Bongard Problems by design communicate ideas without fixing that context ahead of time. The label "precise" can only mean a Bongard Problem's rule seems precise to people who see it. (This "precise vs. fuzzy" Bongard Problem is fuzzy.)


In an precise "less than ___ vs. greater than ___" Bongard Problem (keyword spectrum), the division between the sides is usually an apparent threshold. For example, there is an intuitive threshold between acute and obtuse angles (see e.g. BP292).


As a rule of thumb, do not consider imperfections of hand drawn images (keyword ignoreimperfections) when deciding whether a Bongard Problem is precise or fuzzy. Just because one can draw a square badly does not mean "triangle vs. quadrilateral" (BP6) should be labelled fuzzy; similar vagueness arises in all hand-drawn Bongard Problems. (For Bongard Problems in which fine subtleties of drawings, including small imperfections, are meant to be considered, use the keyword perfect.)


Sometimes the way a Bongard Problem would sort certain examples is an unsolved problem in mathematics. (See e.g. BP820.) There is a precise criterion that has been used to verify each sorted example fits where it fits (some kind of mathematical proof); however, where some examples fit is still unknown. Whether or not such a Bongard Problem should be labelled "precise" might be debated.

(Technical note: some properties are known to be undecidable, and sometimes the decidability itself is unknown. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_problem .)

(See the keyword proofsrequired.)

One way to resolve this ambiguity is to define "precise" as meaning that once people decide where an example belongs for a reason, they will all agree about it.


Sometimes the class of all examples in a Bongard Problem is imprecise, but, despite that, the rule sorting those examples is precise. Say, for some potential new example, it is unclear whether it should be included in the Bongard Problem at all, but, if it were included, it would be clear where it should be sorted (or that it should be left unsorted). A Bongard Problem like this can still be tagged "precise".

(If all examples are clearly sorted except for some example for which it is unclear whether it belongs to the class of relevant examples, the situation becomes ambiguous.)

On the other hand, sometimes the class of all examples is very clear, with an obvious boundary. (Keyword preciseworld.)


There is a subtle distinction to draw between Bongard Problems that are precise to the people making them and Bongard Problems that are precise to the people solving them. A Bongard Problem (particularly a non-allsorted one) might be labeled "precise" on the OEBP because the description and the listed ambiguous examples explicitly forbid sorting certain border cases; however, someone looking at the Bongard Problem without access to the OEBP page containing the definition would not be aware of this. It may or may not be obvious that certain examples were intentionally left out of the Bongard Problem. A larger collection of examples may make it more clear that a particularly blatant potential border case was left out intentionally.

CROSSREFS

See BP876 for the version with pictures of Bongard Problems instead of links to pages on the OEBP.

See both and neither for specific ways an example can be classified as unsorted in an "precise" Bongard Problem.

Adjacent-numbered pages:
BP503 BP504 BP505 BP506 BP507  *  BP509 BP510 BP511 BP512 BP513

KEYWORD

fuzzy, meta (see left/right), links, keyword, right-self, sideless

WORLD

bp [smaller | same | bigger]

AUTHOR

Aaron David Fairbanks

BP537 Meta Bongard Problems vs. other Bongard Problems.
BP200
BP501
BP503
BP504
BP506
BP507
BP508
BP509
BP510
BP511
BP512
BP513
BP514
BP515
BP516
BP517
BP518
BP519
BP520
BP521
BP522
BP526
BP534
BP535
BP537
BP539
BP541
BP542
BP544
BP546
BP547
BP549
BP550
BP552
BP553

. . .

BP1
BP2
BP3
BP4
BP5
BP6
BP7
BP8
BP9
BP10
?
BP1080
(edit; present; nest [left/right]; search; history)
COMMENTS

Bongard Problems sorted left have the keyword "meta" on the OEBP.


Meta Bongard Problems are Bongard Problems that sort Bongard Problems. Sometimes abbreviated MBPs.


The first meta Bongard Problem was BP200.


Some meta BP pages sort images of Bongard Problems (keyword miniproblems), while other meta BP pages sort other BP pages (keyword links).

CROSSREFS

BPs that sort meta-BPs are labelled metameta.

Adjacent-numbered pages:
BP532 BP533 BP534 BP535 BP536  *  BP538 BP539 BP540 BP541 BP542

KEYWORD

meta (see left/right), links, keyword, world, left-self, sideless, metameta, left-full, feedback

CONCEPT recursion (info | search)

WORLD

bp [smaller | same | bigger]
zoom in left (linksbp)

AUTHOR

Aaron David Fairbanks

BP867 Bongard Problem with solution that can be naturally expressed as "___ vs. not so" vs. not so.
BP32
BP77
BP82
BP127
BP243
BP257
BP274
BP288
BP323
BP344
BP376
BP381
BP385
BP390
BP506
BP507
BP515
BP516
BP538
BP541
BP542
BP544
BP545
BP553
BP559
BP569
BP576
BP812
BP816
BP818
BP823
BP825
BP852
BP866
BP867

. . .

BP6

Qat

blimp

notso

(edit; present; nest [left/right]; search; history)
COMMENTS

Left-sorted BPs have the keyword "notso" on the OEBP.


This meta Bongard Problem is about Bongard Problems featuring two rules that are conceptual opposites.


Sometimes both sides could be seen as the "not" side: consider, for example, two definitions of the same Bongard Problem, "shape has hole vs. does not" and "shape is not filled vs. is". It is possible (albeit perhaps unnatural) to phrase the solution either way when the left and right sides partition all possible relevant examples cleanly into two groups (see the allsorted keyword).


When one property is "positive-seeming" and its opposite is "negative-seeming", it usually means the positive property would be recognized without counter-examples (e.g. a collection of triangles will be seen as such), while the negative property wouldn't be recognized without counter-examples (e.g. a collection of "non-triangle shapes" will just be interpreted as "shapes" unless triangles are shown opposite them).


BP513 (keyword left-narrow) is about Bongard Problems whose left side can be recognized without the right side. When a Bongard Problem is left-narrow and not "right-narrow that usually makes the property on the left seem positive and the property on the right seem negative.


The OEBP by convention has preferred the "positive-seeming" property (when there is one) to be on the left side.


All in all, the keyword "notso" should mean:

1) If the Bongard Problem is "narrow" on at least one side, then it is left-narrow.

2) The right side is the conceptual negation of the left side.


If a Bongard Problem's solution is "[Property A] vs. not so", the "not so" side is everything without [Property A] within some suitable context. A Bongard Problem "triangles vs. not so" might only include simple shapes as non-triangles; it need not include images of boats as non-triangles. It is not necessary for all the kitchen sink to be thrown on the "not so" side (although it is here).

CROSSREFS

See BP1001 for a version sorting pictures of Bongard Problems (miniproblems) instead of links to pages on the OEBP. (This version is a little different. In BP1001, the kitchen sink of all other possible images is always included on the right "not so" side, rather than a context-dependent conceptual negation.)


Contrast keyword viceversa.


"[Property A] vs. not so" Bongard Problems are often allsorted, meaning they sort all relevant examples--but not always, because sometimes there exist ambiguous border cases, unclear whether they fit [Property A] or not.

Adjacent-numbered pages:
BP862 BP863 BP864 BP865 BP866  *  BP868 BP869 BP870 BP871 BP872

KEYWORD

notso, meta (see left/right), links, keyword, left-self, funny

WORLD

everything [smaller | same]
zoom in left

AUTHOR

Aaron David Fairbanks

BP1126 Meta Bongard Problems in which examples are pages on the OEBP vs. meta Bongard Problems in which examples are pictures of Bongard Problems.
BP501
BP503
BP504
BP506
BP507
BP508
BP509
BP510
BP511
BP512
BP513
BP514
BP515
BP516
BP517
BP518
BP519
BP520
BP521
BP522
BP526
BP534
BP535
BP537
BP539
BP541
BP542
BP544
BP546
BP547
BP549
BP550
BP552
BP553
BP554

. . .

BP200
BP793
BP795
BP796
BP802
BP803
BP827
BP828
BP829
BP830
BP831
BP832
BP833
BP834
BP835
BP836
BP868
BP871
BP872
BP873
BP874
BP875
BP876
BP877
BP878
BP879
BP880
BP881
BP894
BP948
BP952
BP953
BP954
BP955
BP957

. . .

(edit; present; nest [left/right]; search; history)
COMMENTS

Bongard Problems sorted left have the keyword "links" on the OEBP.

Bongard Problems sorted right have the keyword "miniproblems" on the OEBP.


The keyword "links" is automatically added to a Bongard Problem on the OEBP if a BP number is added as an example.


Meta Bongard problems that sort Bongard Problems purely based on their solutions (keyword presentationmatters) usually have two versions in the database: one that sorts images of Bongard Problems and one that sorts links to pages on the OEBP. If both versions exist, users should make them cross-reference one another.

CROSSREFS

All the examples of miniature Bongard Problems within any meta Bongard Problem tagged "miniproblems" would fit left on BP1080 (which is a showcase of the various formats for images of Bongard Problems).

Adjacent-numbered pages:
BP1121 BP1122 BP1123 BP1124 BP1125  *  BP1127 BP1128 BP1129 BP1130 BP1131

KEYWORD

meta (see left/right), links, keyword, world, left-self, metameta

WORLD

metabp [smaller | same | bigger]

AUTHOR

Aaron David Fairbanks

    page 1

Welcome | Solve | Browse | Lookup | Recent | Links | Register | Contact
Contribute | Keywords | Concepts | Worlds | Ambiguities | Transformations | Invalid Problems | Style Guide | Goals | Glossary