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BP867 Bongard Problem with solution that can be naturally expressed as "___ vs. not so" vs. not so.
BP32
BP77
BP82
BP127
BP243
BP257
BP274
BP288
BP323
BP344
BP376
BP381
BP385
BP390
BP506
BP507
BP515
BP516
BP538
BP541
BP542
BP544
BP545
BP553
BP559
BP569
BP576
BP812
BP816
BP818
BP823
BP825
BP852
BP866
BP867

. . .

BP6

Qat

blimp

notso

(edit; present; nest [left/right]; search; history)
COMMENTS

Left-sorted BPs have the keyword "notso" on the OEBP.


This meta Bongard Problem is about Bongard Problems featuring two rules that are conceptual opposites.


Sometimes both sides could be seen as the "not" side: consider, for example, two definitions of the same Bongard Problem, "shape has hole vs. does not" and "shape is not filled vs. is". It is possible (albeit perhaps unnatural) to phrase the solution either way when the left and right sides partition all possible relevant examples cleanly into two groups (see the allsorted keyword).


When one property is "positive-seeming" and its opposite is "negative-seeming", it usually means the positive property would be recognized without counter-examples (e.g. a collection of triangles will be seen as such), while the negative property wouldn't be recognized without counter-examples (e.g. a collection of "non-triangle shapes" will just be interpreted as "shapes" unless triangles are shown opposite them).


BP513 (keyword left-narrow) is about Bongard Problems whose left side can be recognized without the right side. When a Bongard Problem is left-narrow and not "right-narrow that usually makes the property on the left seem positive and the property on the right seem negative.


The OEBP by convention has preferred the "positive-seeming" property (when there is one) to be on the left side.


All in all, the keyword "notso" should mean:

1) If the Bongard Problem is "narrow" on at least one side, then it is left-narrow.

2) The right side is the conceptual negation of the left side.


If a Bongard Problem's solution is "[Property A] vs. not so", the "not so" side is everything without [Property A] within some suitable context. A Bongard Problem "triangles vs. not so" might only include simple shapes as non-triangles; it need not include images of boats as non-triangles. It is not necessary for all the kitchen sink to be thrown on the "not so" side (although it is here).

CROSSREFS

See BP1001 for a version sorting pictures of Bongard Problems (miniproblems) instead of links to pages on the OEBP. (This version is a little different. In BP1001, the kitchen sink of all other possible images is always included on the right "not so" side, rather than a context-dependent conceptual negation.)


Contrast keyword viceversa.


"[Property A] vs. not so" Bongard Problems are often allsorted, meaning they sort all relevant examples--but not always, because sometimes there exist ambiguous border cases, unclear whether they fit [Property A] or not.

Adjacent-numbered pages:
BP862 BP863 BP864 BP865 BP866  *  BP868 BP869 BP870 BP871 BP872

KEYWORD

notso, meta (see left/right), links, keyword, left-self, funny

WORLD

everything [smaller | same]
zoom in left

AUTHOR

Aaron David Fairbanks

BP902 This Bongard Problem vs. anything else.
BP902
BP1

becious

(edit; present; nest [left/right]; search; history)
COMMENTS

Although this Bongard Problem is self-referential, it's only because of the specific phrasing of the solution. "BP902 vs. anything else" would also work. The number 902 could have been chosen coincidentally.

CROSSREFS

See BP953, BP959.

Adjacent-numbered pages:
BP897 BP898 BP899 BP900 BP901  *  BP903 BP904 BP905 BP906 BP907

KEYWORD

notso, meta (see left/right), links, left-self, left-narrow, left-finite, left-full, right-null, right-it, invalid, experimental, funny

CONCEPT self-reference (info | search),
specificity (info | search)

WORLD

everything [smaller | same]
zoom in left (bp902)

AUTHOR

Leo Crabbe

BP919 BP Pages on the OEBP where users are advised to upload left examples and right examples in pairs vs. other BP Pages.
BP197
BP332
BP349
BP360
BP373
BP389
BP392
BP393
BP528
BP532
BP533
BP805
BP827
BP830
BP831
BP842
BP845
BP846
BP848
BP852
BP894
BP903
BP912
BP939
BP941
BP998
BP1049
BP1183
BP919
(edit; present; nest [left/right]; search; history)
COMMENTS

Left examples have the keyword "contributepairs" on the OEBP.


When this keyword is added to a Problem, OEBP users are advised to add a corresponding right example for every left example they add and vice versa.


It is common for Bongard Problems to present left examples on the left side and corresponding altered versions of those examples on the right side, tweaked only slightly, to highlight the difference and make the solution easier to see (see keyword help).


This is common in more abstract Bongard Problems that admit a wide range of examples, a variety of different styles or types (e.g. BP360). Showing two versions of the same thing, one on the left and one on the right, helps a person interpret what that thing is meant to be in the context of the Bongard Problem; whatever qualities vary between the two in the pair must be relevant.


If a person cannot sort an example according to the solution property without seeing its corresponding opposite example, the Bongard Problem is invalid (see https://www.oebp.org/invalid.php ). There is no one rule dividing the sides; the solution is not a method to determine whether an arbitrary example fits left or right. See also Bongard Problems with the keyword collective, which are similarly borderline-invalid.


A BP in which each left example corresponds to a right example and vice versa could be remade as a Bongard Problem in which the left examples are the pairs. For example BP360 would turn into "a pair consisting of the ordered version of something and the chaotic version of the same thing vs. a pair of things not satisfying this relationship." This process would turn a Bongard Problem that is invalid in the sense described above into a valid one.

(See keyword orderedpair.)


In some "contributepairs" Bongard Problems there really is a natural choice of left version for every right example and vice versa (see keyword dual); in others the choice is artificially imposed by the Bongard Problem creator.


When "contributepairs" Bongard Problems are laid out in the format with a grid of boxes on either side of a dividing line, the boxes may be arranged so as to highlight the correspondence: either


A B | A B

E F | E F

G H | G H


or


A B | B A

E F | F E

G H | H G.

CROSSREFS

Adjacent-numbered pages:
BP914 BP915 BP916 BP917 BP918  *  BP920 BP921 BP922 BP923 BP924

KEYWORD

meta (see left/right), links, keyword, oebp, right-self, instruction

WORLD

bppage [smaller | same | bigger]
zoom in left (correspondence_bp)

AUTHOR

Aaron David Fairbanks

BP930 BP Pages on the OEBP where users are advised to upload examples that help people (by hinting at the solution) vs. other BP Pages.
BP334
BP349
BP382
BP384
BP569
BP829
BP892
BP945
BP988
BP989
BP1008
BP1016
BP1089
BP1102
BP1161
BP1168
(edit; present; nest [left/right]; search; history)
COMMENTS

Left examples have the keyword "help" on the OEBP.


BPs should be marked "help" when the OEBP wants most examples (at least on one side) to be helpful (not when just one or two uploaded examples are helpful).


Helpfulness can be a spectrum; most Bongard Problems are helpful to some degree just by not using the most convoluted unintelligible examples possible.


Examples that are helpful to people are often not particularly helpful to computers.


Any helpful Bongard Problem has a harder, not helpful version. For example, BP384 (square number of dots versus non-square number of dots) would be much harder if all examples had hundreds of dots that weren't arranged recognizably. Instead, the dots in the examples are always arranged in shapes that make the square-ness or non-square-ness of the numbers easy to check without brute counting.


When all examples in a Bongard Problem are helpful, it may become unclear whether the helpfulness is part of the Bongard Problem's solution.

E.g.: Is the left-hand side of BP384 "square number of dots", or is it "square number of dots that are arranged in a helpful way so as to communicate the square-ness"?


See seemslike, where examples being helpful is an irremovable aspect of the Bongard Problem's solution.

CROSSREFS

Adjacent-numbered pages:
BP925 BP926 BP927 BP928 BP929  *  BP931 BP932 BP933 BP934 BP935

KEYWORD

anticomputer, meta (see left/right), links, keyword, oebp, instruction

WORLD

bppage [smaller | same | bigger]
zoom in left (help_bp)

AUTHOR

Aaron David Fairbanks

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