login
Hints
(Greetings from The On-Line Encyclopedia of Bongard Problems!)
Search: ex:EX9725
Displaying 1-2 of 2 results found.     page 1
     Sort: id      Format: long      Filter: (all | no meta | meta)      Mode: (words | no words)
BP998 X "X _" vs. all are "X _"; X Y.
(edit; present; nest [left/right]; search; history)
COMMENTS

Right:

All are "all but one are ___"; all but one are black.

All are "every other is ___"; every other is solid polygons.

All are "gradually becoming ___"; gradually becoming thickly outlined.

Left:

All but one are "all but one are ___".

Every other is "every other is ___".

Gradually becoming "gradually becoming ___".


Here is another way of putting it:

Call it "meta" when the whole imitates its parts, and call it "doubly-meta" when the whole imitates its parts with respect to the way it imitates its parts. Left are doubly-meta, while right are just meta.


Here is a more belabored way of putting it:

Call something like "is star-shaped" a "rule". An object can satisfy a rule.

Call something like "all but one are ___" a "rule-parametrized rule". A collection of objects can satisfy a rule-parametrized rule with respect to a particular rule.

On the right: every collection fits the same rule-parametrized rule (with respect to various rules); furthermore the collection of collections fits that same rule-parametrized rule (with respect to some unrelated rule that collections can satisfy).

On the left: The collection of collections fits a rule-parametrized rule with respect to the rule of fitting that rule-parametrized rule (with respect to various rules).


Previously, an unintended solution to this BP was "not all groups share some noticeable property vs. all do." It is hard to come up with examples foiling this alternative solution because the rule-parametrized rule (see explanation above) usually has to do with not all objects in the collection fitting the rule. (See BP568, which is about BP ideas that are always overridden by a simpler solution.) The example EX10108 "all five are 'all five are ___'" was added, foiling the alternative solution.

CROSSREFS

The right side of this Problem is a subset of BP999left.

Adjacent-numbered pages:
BP993 BP994 BP995 BP996 BP997  *  BP999 BP1000 BP1001 BP1002 BP1003

EXAMPLE

"Odd one out with respect to what property is the odd one out" would not fit left: even though this example does seem doubly-meta, it is not doubly-meta in the right way. There is no odd one out with respect to the property of having an odd one out.

Similarly, consider "gradual transition with respect to what the gradual transition is between", etc. Instead of having the form "X 'X __' ", this is more like "X [the __ appearing in 'X __']". Examples like these two could make for a different Bongard Problem.

KEYWORD

hard, unwordable, challenge, overriddensolution, infodense, contributepairs, funny, rules, miniworlds

CONCEPT self-reference (info | search)

WORLD

zoom in right

AUTHOR

Aaron David Fairbanks

BP999 The collection of collections obeys the same rule as the individual collections vs. it does not.
(edit; present; nest [left/right]; search; history)
COMMENTS

Rhetorical question: Where would the collection of left examples of this Bongard Problem be sorted by this Bongard Problem? (The question is whether these examples considered together satisfy the pattern that all the parts do, namely that the whole satisfies the pattern that all the parts do.)

See BP793 and BP1004 for similar paradoxes.

CROSSREFS

See BP1005 for the version about only numerical properties; examples in that BP would be sorted the same way here that they are there.

See BP1003 for a similar idea. Rather than the collection of collections imitating the individual collections, BP1003 is about the total combined collection imitating the individual collections. A picture showing (for example) an odd number of even-numbered groups would be sorted differently by these two BPs.

Also see BP1004, which is likewise about the whole satisfying the same rule as its parts, but there the parts don't themselves have to be collections; there the parts are just plain individual objects. The panels in BP999 (this BP) should be sorted the same way in BP1004.

See BP1002, which is about only visual self-similarity instead of more general conceptual "self-similarity".

Adjacent-numbered pages:
BP994 BP995 BP996 BP997 BP998  *  BP1000 BP1001 BP1002 BP1003 BP1004

KEYWORD

nice, abstract, creativeexamples, left-narrow, rules, miniworlds

CONCEPT recursion (info | search),
self-reference (info | search)

WORLD

[smaller | same | bigger]
zoom in left | zoom in right

AUTHOR

Aaron David Fairbanks

    page 1

Welcome | Solve | Browse | Lookup | Recent | Links | Register | Contact
Contribute | Keywords | Concepts | Worlds | Ambiguities | Transformations | Invalid Problems | Style Guide | Goals | Glossary